Re: Jordan Davis General Discussion Thread #1

[twee]

Awesome Wasone.  I hope you and anyone else who happens upon this board will provide me with links of people to write, ideas of items that need to be addressed - I will try to find out as much as I can by going over the evidence again and bringing up points that I see that were not addressed at the trial that I think should be.  Lets get on it and make a difference.  Thanks for your pep talk Wasone.  I needed it.

I needed the pep talk also, my first grandchild will be born within the next month, a grandson.  I was working on an afghan for him last night and all I could think was do I want him living in a world where he is deemed more important than Jordan or Trayvon just because of the color of the skin he is born with.  Grandma needs to work hard to make this a nation he will be proud of!

It is wonderful that you are thinking about the future world your grandchild will live in and realizing that some people still consider our worth based on the color of our skin color.  That is very moving to me - if only everybody would give this some thought.  Throughout my life, I have given no thought about racism - I was never exposed to it, so it never entered my mind until Zimmerman.  Oh, when young, I visited my grandparents who resided in Oakland California and during the Hughy Newton era and rioting, I was exposed to the Black Panthers rioting and was actually beat up a couple times by some black kids - but that was a summer outing to grandma and grandpa's and I eventually went back home to where those problems were not affecting our town.  The remainder of my life I was not exposed to any type of racism - not until the Zimmerman trial.  Now, my grandparents that lived in Oakland were very very racist - my grandma, who did not drive, used to carry a claw hammer when she walked to the market because she was afraid of black people.  I am so glad that I did not grow up living around my grandparents because racism is a learned standard.  My parents were not like that, or if they were, I was never exposed to it.

Anyway, I decided during the Zimmerman trial that when I retired - which is right around the corner -I would donate my spare time as a paralegal to a civil rights group.  I still intend on pursuing this provided my health will allow it.  Thing is - the West Coast doesn't seem to have the type of racial inequalities that the South does.  So, I don't know that my time will be that effective in helping those who really need it.  

I received this on my twitter feed: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

bbm - I am on the west coast also and our racial inequalities are more under the belly of our society. It is here but not overt.

[CherokeeNative]

bbm - I am on the west coast also and our racial inequalities are more under the belly of our society.  It is here but not overt.

Then donating my time to a civil rights group will not be in vain - I am determined to make it my mission. Thanks Twee   

[CherokeeNative]

Taking my meds and going to bed for the night - have a great evening.

[MorganMars]

A must see! #DangerousBlackKids

Inserting a link to HLN and you can go to Twitter from there.

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[CherokeeNative]

Here are the links to the 1st and 2nd page of the letter that the jury had requested to see during deliberations:

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[twee]

GMAFB, this is a self serving fictional story.

[CherokeeNative]

Yes Twee, it is and I am shocked, shocked that it made it into evidence. Or did it? How did the jury know about it? This murderer simply wrote out his fictional story so that everyone (girlfriend) could make sure her story was correct - yet she told the truth anyway.

I still want to know where she was during deliberations - did she abandon Dunn once she testified? I sure hope so. I hope she and Charlie have fled the coop.

[twee]

I can't wait for the retrial... Can they go after it now as a hate crime? It really needs to be addressed.

[CherokeeNative]

I can't wait for the retrial...   Can they go after it now as a hate crime?  It really needs to be addressed.

I don't know if they can add new charges now or not - there is a specific statute for a hate crime I think. If "hate crime" is mentioned anywhere in the statute that they originally charged him with, I do not see why they couldn't go ahead and change their "theory" - but if they have to add another charge is what I am questioning.

It seems only fair that having realized that Dunn's actions were a hate crime through the discovery of additional evidence not known to the prosecution when the charged him, that they could proceed with that theory or charge - but I don't know. They didn't have the jailhouse letters and phone calls at the time the charged him - but the jailhouse letters make it abundantly clear that he held animosity towards black people.

[twee]

I am not legal (lol) or anything but I think they should be able to add if they want to, it is a different charge and one they haven't tried him on soooo...

[MorganMars]

I can't wait for the retrial...   Can they go after it now as a hate crime?  It really needs to be addressed.

I don't know if they can add new charges now or not - there is a specific statute for a hate crime I think.  If "hate crime" is mentioned anywhere in the statute that they originally charged him with, I do not see why they couldn't go ahead and change their "theory" - but if they have to add another charge is what I am questioning.

It seems only fair that having realized that Dunn's actions were a hate crime through the discovery of additional evidence not known to the prosecution when the charged him, that they could proceed with that theory or charge - but I don't know.  They didn't have the jailhouse letters and phone calls at the time the charged him - but the jailhouse letters make it abundantly clear that he held animosity towards black people.

What about adding leaving the scene of a crime??

[sidewinder]

I can't wait for the retrial...   Can they go after it now as a hate crime?  It really needs to be addressed.

I don't know if they can add new charges now or not - there is a specific statute for a hate crime I think.  If "hate crime" is mentioned anywhere in the statute that they originally charged him with, I do not see why they couldn't go ahead and change their "theory" - but if they have to add another charge is what I am questioning.

It seems only fair that having realized that Dunn's actions were a hate crime through the discovery of additional evidence not known to the prosecution when the charged him, that they could proceed with that theory or charge - but I don't know.  They didn't have the jailhouse letters and phone calls at the time the charged him - but the jailhouse letters make it abundantly clear that he held animosity towards black people.

What about adding leaving the scene of a crime??

Aren't nunchuks and a silencer illegal?

I am angry when I hear there is no point in a retrial because he's going away for 60 -75 years. Jordan's parents have every right to a retrial no matter what the cost to taxpayers. Jordan's parents are tax payers, too. Just makes me furious.

[CherokeeNative]

The defendant has the right to be provided a specific statement of the charges against him. In reading the cases I can find on line thus far, it appears that new evidence will permit the State to amend its charging information in an appropriate circumstance.

But in other cases, where the court dismisses an amended information upon motion of the defense, the prosecution can then precluded from retrying the case. If I am reading it correctly, if the defense can show that the prosecution was aware of the facts constituting a need to amend the information before the original trial, then it can be looked upon as "prosecutorial vindictiveness", and the prosecution cannot proceed under the original information once dismissed.

I don't think the prosecution will be filing an amended information since Dunn's jailhouse letters were known by the prosecution before the trial.

Also, I do not know whether the letters written after the crime can be used by the prosecution to bolster their claim that the murder was a hate crime. There was nothing racial during the commission of the crime that stands out other than what we believe was in Dunn's mind - I mean he did not use racial slurs that I recall. The only thing that shows the Dunn is a racist is his jailhouse letters and calls - and then the neighbor's comments. Bottom line, I don't think they will prosecute this as a hate crime - I could be wrong. :-/

[CherokeeNative]

I can't wait for the retrial...   Can they go after it now as a hate crime?  It really needs to be addressed.

I don't know if they can add new charges now or not - there is a specific statute for a hate crime I think.  If "hate crime" is mentioned anywhere in the statute that they originally charged him with, I do not see why they couldn't go ahead and change their "theory" - but if they have to add another charge is what I am questioning.

It seems only fair that having realized that Dunn's actions were a hate crime through the discovery of additional evidence not known to the prosecution when the charged him, that they could proceed with that theory or charge - but I don't know.  They didn't have the jailhouse letters and phone calls at the time the charged him - but the jailhouse letters make it abundantly clear that he held animosity towards black people.

What about adding leaving the scene of a crime??

Aren't nunchuks and a silencer illegal?

I am angry when I hear there is no point in a retrial because he's going away for 60 -75 years. Jordan's parents have every right to a retrial no matter what the cost to taxpayers. Jordan's parents are tax payers, too. Just makes me furious.

I don't know about the nunchuks, but I read somewhere that the silencer was a fake one and wasn't operational. Don't know if that's true.

I agree - while I am content knowing that Dunn will never walk free again in his lifetime, I believe it is important that Dunn be convicted as a murderer - and that Jordan's family get satisfaction in knowing that Dunn is carrying that label in prison.

[CherokeeNative]

I can't wait for the retrial...   Can they go after it now as a hate crime?  It really needs to be addressed.

I don't know if they can add new charges now or not - there is a specific statute for a hate crime I think.  If "hate crime" is mentioned anywhere in the statute that they originally charged him with, I do not see why they couldn't go ahead and change their "theory" - but if they have to add another charge is what I am questioning.

It seems only fair that having realized that Dunn's actions were a hate crime through the discovery of additional evidence not known to the prosecution when the charged him, that they could proceed with that theory or charge - but I don't know.  They didn't have the jailhouse letters and phone calls at the time the charged him - but the jailhouse letters make it abundantly clear that he held animosity towards black people.

What about adding leaving the scene of a crime??

Yes, I agree - why wasn't that added? Maybe because in the big scheme of things, they figured they didn't need that. Who knows what goes through their minds when deciding what to charge. I realize why they didn't charge Rhonda with aiding and abetting - because they wanted her cooperation on the stand.

[CherokeeNative]

Good night all - first day back to work tomorrow - going to be grueling. LOL Sweet dreams to you all.

[Cleos_mum]

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The extermination of Jordan Davis: An empty verdict, a hollow victory


Valid article. Not checking upthread tonight . . . if already posted, please ignore.

Sidenote: Pete Seeger died this past January 27th. RIP Pete, the Grandfather of Folk Music, with Woodie Guthrie.

This was my first Pete Seeger album, on vinyl:

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We Shall Overcome is a 1963 album by Pete Seeger. It was recorded live at his concert at Carnegie Hall, New York, on June 8, 1963, and was released by Columbia Records.

These were all Freedom Songs of the Civil Rights movement. RIP, Pete. I love ya'. The fight continues.

Peace.

[MorganMars]

John M. Phillips ‏@JohnPhillips  13m
@LiberalPhenom @MrMike_H 11-1 for conviction. 1 voted self defense. Or so the rumor goes. FWIW.

[CherokeeNative]

John M. Phillips ‏@JohnPhillips  13m
@LiberalPhenom @MrMike_H 11-1 for conviction. 1 voted self defense. Or so the rumor goes. FWIW.

So Dunn was 1 vote away from being convicted of first degree murder. They will get him next go around. I heard it was a woman who was the hold out that hung the jury. If she was that head strong about it, then I am guessing she went in with her mind made up.

[MorganMars]

John M. Phillips ‏@JohnPhillips  13m
@LiberalPhenom @MrMike_H 11-1 for conviction. 1 voted self defense. Or so the rumor goes. FWIW.

So Dunn was 1 vote away from being convicted of first degree murder.  They will get him next go around.  I heard it was a woman who was the hold out that hung the jury.  If she was that head strong about it, then I am guessing she went in with her mind made up.  

It is still just at "rumor" status. I have been searching everywhere to get confirmation. Becoming obsessed again, trying not to.   

[MorganMars]

I've been thinking (always a dangerous endeavour). I didn't watch the trial, but saw some snippets and I seem to remember the ballistics witness saying that they could not accurately determine which shots were fired first. If, so, could it be that the kids started backing out when they saw the gun and that the first three shots found their mark in the FRONT door then, as they reversed to the right, it left the right side of the vehicle exposed and the next three shots were the shots that hit the rear door and killed Jordan?

My thought is, that if this is the case, then Dunn was firing on a victim that was retreating and would not have the self-defense claim to fall back on. Can anyone point me to that testimony from the ballistics witness?

[twee]

I have a small rant which I am putting here. I abhor violence be it white on white, black on black, black on white, white on black, and any combinations for the variety of human beings we have on this earth. I hate the SYG because it seems all you have to say is I thought he had a gun, I thought he was going to kill me. This is a license to kill IMO. And these two men have no regrets or remorse, they show no feeling except for themselves.

[MorganMars]

I have a small rant which I am putting here.  I abhor violence be it white on white, black on black, black on white, white on black, and any combinations for the variety of human beings we have on this earth.  I hate the SYG because it seems all you have to say is I thought he had a gun, I thought he was going to kill me.  This is a license to kill IMO.   And these two men have no regrets or remorse, they show no feeling except for themselves.

If I might join you and add to your rant, it is not JUST the SYG law, it is also in the self-defense law in Florida. Is that the way it is everywhere?

Cannot believe the injustice of it!

[MorganMars]

Dan Abrams ‏@danabrams 3m
Tonight @Nightline we have the first interview with a juror from the #DunnTrial. She explains why the jury deadlocked.

[ellejay]

Dan Abrams ‏@danabrams  3m
Tonight @Nightline we have the first interview with a juror from the #DunnTrial. She explains why the jury deadlocked.

--excellent, I'm anxious to get some insight from the jury room.

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Byron Pitts ‏@byronpitts  · 37m  
@ABC @Nightline Exclusive tonight.   The first juror from #Dunn Murder Trial in Jacksonville, Fl speaks
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Byron Pitts ‏@byronpitts  
Juror #Dunn murder trial describes tension in jury room:  At times people were screaming.  Using profanity

Juror says "Race was not an issue" during deliberation in #Dunn Murder Trial

Jury#4 in 'Loud Music' Murder trial breaks silence tonight.   The first to speak @Nightline  How they voted

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