Re: Jordan Davis General Discussion Thread #1

[CherokeeNative]

 

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[Chickenbutt]

I am not a stupid person and that charge sheet is overwhelming

[ellejay]

Ellejay - do you have a chart that tells us what the mandatory minimums are for these charges and lessers?  TIA    

--no, i'll look for one.

--there is this:

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Florida's tough "10-20-Life" law could mean a life sentence even without a murder conviction

A first-degree murder conviction isn't necessary for an effective life sentence for Michael Dunn, because of Florida's tough "10, 20, Life" sentencing law.

That law applies a sentence of 10 years for employing a gun in the commission of a crime, 20 years for firing the gun in the commission of a crime, and 25 to life for injuring or killing someone with a gun.

Even if the jury fails to convict on a first or second degree murder charge in the November 2012 death of Jordan Davis, it's possible jurors could find Dunn guilty of three charges of attempted murder -- one for each surviving teen. Dunn has admitted firing at the vehicle as it left the Gate gas station, and surveillance tapes capture a few-second delay before the final volley of shots were fired. If the jury believes those shots were not fired in self defense, Dunn could be convicted of three attempted murder charges -- each a gun crime, with a minimum sentence of 20 years. Unless those sentences were served concurrently -- something court watchers familiar with Judge Russell Healey's tough reputation believe is unlikely -- Dunn would be facing a 60-year minimum prison sentence.

[CherokeeNative]

I am not a stupid person and that charge sheet is overwhelming

Well, it's overwhelming to you because you do not have the jury instructions that has the questions that you must answer in order to make such a finding. If you had those, you wouldn't have a problem.

[Chickenbutt]

Thank you Ellejay....that gives a glimmer of hope

[ellejay]

I am not a stupid person and that charge sheet is overwhelming

Well, it's overwhelming to you because you do not have the jury instructions that has the questions that you must answer in order to make such a finding.  If you had those, you wouldn't have a problem.

--I don't think the 12 individually had a problem arriving at a verdict on count 1, just that they're each adamant on their choice (M1, M2, manslaughter, and so on down the line) and cannot all agree on one unanimous verdict.

--which totally sucks!

[CherokeeNative]

I am not a stupid person and that charge sheet is overwhelming

Well, it's overwhelming to you because you do not have the jury instructions that has the questions that you must answer in order to make such a finding.  If you had those, you wouldn't have a problem.

--I don't think the 12 individually had a problem arriving at a verdict on count 1, just that they're each adamant on their choice (M1, M2, manslaughter, and so on down the line) and cannot all agree on one unanimous verdict.

--which totally sucks!

I agree - I believe there is at least one hold out for NG, and any number of those holding out for M1, or lessors. Yeah it truly sucks when people like us firmly believe he is guilty as charged - I would like to hear the rational of the one that is holding out for NG - like we haven't heard it all before, but just the same.   

[ellejay]

I agree - I believe there is at least one hold out for NG, and any number of those holding out for M1, or lessors.  Yeah it truly sucks when people like us firmly believe he is guilty as charged - I would like to hear the rational of the one that is holding out for NG - like we haven't heard it all before, but just the same.    

--on the other hand, of course we don't know how this deadlocked occurred, could be 11 for manslaughter and the 1 for M1 won't back down (or any # of scenarios.)

--at least these jurors are standing their ground and refusing to cave, unlike B29, who was "going to be the one to cause a hung jury", then said screw it, i'll go along w/ my new 5 friends, vote NG, and we'll all be BFF's forever.

[CherokeeNative]

Question - How could they convict on the Attempted Murder charges IF they found Dunn was acting in self-defense?

If they found Dunn was acting in self-defense, all of the counts would be not guity - Right?

[CherokeeNative]

I agree - I believe there is at least one hold out for NG, and any number of those holding out for M1, or lessors.  Yeah it truly sucks when people like us firmly believe he is guilty as charged - I would like to hear the rational of the one that is holding out for NG - like we haven't heard it all before, but just the same.    

--on the other hand, of course we don't know how this deadlocked occurred, could be 11 for manslaughter and the 1 for M1 won't back down (or any # of scenarios.)

--at least these jurors are standing their ground and refusing to cave, unlike B29, who was "going to be the one to cause a hung jury", then said screw it, i'll go along w/ my new 5 friends, vote NG, and we'll all be BFF's forever.

I just love love how you think - would be a hoot to sit down and have a few glasses of wine with you Ellejay !!

[ellejay]

Question - How could they convict on the Attempted Murder charges IF they found Dunn was acting in self-defense?

If they found Dunn was acting in self-defense, all of the counts would be not guity - Right?

--exactly.

[ellejay]

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[Chickenbutt]

That is exactly why I was thinking guilty on murder, not guilty on the attempted murder. Makes no sense to convict him of attempted murder but not for the killing of someone during the attempt to kill them. Did that make sense?

[CherokeeNative]

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Awesome - so long as we have a conviction on something, he's not walking free right away. I don't want this guy walking free for at least 20 years.

[CherokeeNative]

That is exactly why I was thinking guilty on murder, not guilty on the attempted murder. Makes no sense to convict him of attempted murder but not for the killing of someone during the attempt to kill them. Did that make sense?

Yeah, but how do you justify only finding 4 counts guilty with M1 or a lesser being one of those included?  Finding that one of the 3 attempted murders wasn't attempted murder? Or finding that the shooting into a vehicle didn't happen?  Doesn't make sense.  The ONLY way it makes sense to me is if the 4 counts they've agreed upon are not guilty on at least the 3 counts of AM and guilty or not guilty on the missiles count. Sheesh, I am confusing myself

[Chickenbutt]

Well CN, it is all about weather the jury used the actual numbers of the split, or used the 4 to 1 as an example like the judge did. I certainly have no clue if they used the actual numbers or an example.

I am so confused now......so much for me being smart....lol

[ellejay]

--I think they've arrived at a verdict on the attempted murders, 3 counts of G. and of firing into the car, 1 count of G.

--they can't agree on Jordan's killing, b/c some want M1, some want M2, some want manslaughter , some want an even lesser, etc.....and they have to all be unanimous.

[ellejay]

--surely we'll find out tonight and they won't go back to the hotel to sleep on it AGAIN.

--hurry up jury, finish your dinner, and ring that buzzer!

[CherokeeNative]

Here are the Jailhouse calls:

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[Chickenbutt]

I will be sitting down to eat in a few minutes. They will come back while I am at the table.....lol

[ellejay]

--ughh......jury going back to the hotel for the night.

[Chickenbutt]

Oh geez...are they working tomorrow?

[CherokeeNative]

Yes, they will be back starting at 9am or a little earlier.....

[CherokeeNative]

--I think they've arrived at a verdict on the attempted murders, 3 counts of G. and of firing into the car, 1 count of G.

--they can't agree on Jordan's killing, b/c some want M1, some want M2, some want manslaughter , some want an even lesser, etc.....and they have to all be unanimous.

I agree - I don't see it any other way - it has to be the M1 count they are hung on.

[axpm]

What could be the issue? This is really concerning. Maybe they want to sleep on it.

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