Re: Jodi Arias #2

by Nan11 Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:27 pm

gpw wrote:It always comes in threes...Simpson, Anthony and Arias?

I have always noted that things often come in a group of three.

This trial isn't even done yet, though. Before I commit myself to that, I want to give the jury a chance.

What is a little different about this case is that Arias has confessed to the murder. Surely, surely, that alone will be worth something to the members of the jury during deliberations.

As long as they don't let her walk free--that will be the main thing. If she doesn't get as steep a sentence as I'm hoping for, that won't matter so much to me.

Just that they don't let her walk free. imo [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Nan11 Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:30 pm

Darkman wrote:I hope the judge is feeling better ... so they can put the show back on the road .. and go on with it :))))

Yey! We agree. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Nan11 Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:46 pm

Phoenician wrote:Thanks for the welcome, Chickenbutt .. What a screen name! :) I've enjoyed seeing your discussion here.

Up 'til now, I have been following the case mainly on Twitter (#JodiArias ... I am @niteowlmom3) ... and watching Nancy Grace. I have no interest in attending the trial even though it's going on a few miles from my house. Can't stand the explicit nature of this case. The x-rated conversation and the insane violence of the crime offends me tremendously and yet I feel strangely drawn to this case. As a Phoenician, a Mormon, and a survivor of Mormon single life! Ha! I was in a Singles Ward, like Travis, for much of my 20s, in Utah and California. I relate to the comments and interviews by his friends, because I've lived that life. I know exactly how things go in Mormon Singles Ward. There is a lot of pressure to be perfect, and to get married. It's also a wonderfully tightknit community, that offers a lot of fun, "safe" adventures, and eventual marriage relationships. I'm in my 40s, and have lived all around the country but still stay in regular contact with some of the friends I met in my Singles Wards 20 years ago. They are my dearest friends in this world.

I went through one bad relationship that reminds me of what Travis faced with Jodi in some ways. It was never violent. But it drove me to the DEPTHS of depression to the point I considered suicide. I had a relationship with someone I knew was bad for me, but I honestly didn't believe I deserved better. Sometimes when people have low self-esteem or addictions, their relationships become co-dependent. I believe Travis simply couldn't walk away completely from Jodi because of co-dependency, due to his childhood. If you listen to all the testimony, Travis was a very giving person. He never locked his house when he was home, he was generous with his time and money, he often let friends and acquaintances stay with him when they were going through trouble. I think he had some boundary issues from being homeless as a child and having no parental guidance. He was one of those guys who picked up "stray animals" and continually tried to "make things better."

In walks stray animal, Jodi, who also struggles with boundaries. Unlike Travis, who allows others to take from him, she is a taker. She hates limits. She is a boundary-pusher. Look at her audacity, the way she maneuvered her way into the crime investigation. SHE WAS CALLING THE DETECTIVES before they called her! She was offering to "help" (with her lies) and basically showing she had NO FEAR of or respect for boundaries! I can't even conceive of her lack of fear. She is one sick individual.

I think Jodi pushed Travis to take sexual risks. I don't think he had very much experience, but I do think that he eventually regretted what he allowed to happen with Jodi. She brought out a dark side in him. He may have become addicted to her sexually. (I really can't comment on that. I am only familiar with emotional addictions.)

They were just locked in a very very tragic cycle. And it fascinates me. If only Travis could have recognized the danger. How sad that his promising future was cut short. And it's also tragic for Jodi. She is a talented person, but she completely lacks the Spirit of God in her life. She listens to all the wrong impulses, allowing lust, anger, jealousy, deceit and vengeance to rule her life.

It will be interesting to see the rest of the trial. I hope the jury will do the right thing and thoroughly examine the evidence.

Looking forward to discussing it all with you!

Awesome comment, Phoenician! Thanks so much for sharing your insight.

The small part that I bolded is because I, too, believe that. (I think sexual addictions have causes much the same as emotional or drug additions.)

The trial is interesting, but a little nerve-wracking at the same time.

I'm looking forward to reading more of your comments. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Nan11 Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:53 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:Phoenician....
About the Chickenbutt.....my boys have called me that forever ( they have no respect!)
It is related to a song I can never remember the name of....lol.
Anyway, it is a loving nickname that generally gets peoples attention....
I am heading to AZ on Friday for a quick trip on Friday. We have a home there that we are currently renting out, but we are so over NY! We are coming home in June!!!
We all look forward to your comments and your insight into this very convoluted case.
btw, I agree with what you said....I think Jodi instigated the contact and Travis, for whatever reasons, could not say no.

Ohhh, CB. It's hard not to envy you. We are getting another big storm this weekend. A bad one, too. Heavy, heavy snow, just filled with rain; and accompanied by high winds.

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by Chickenbutt Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:58 pm

Nan....we are getting flurries all day and the temp is 12 degrees with a windchill of -2. I can't wait to get to AZ to thaw my feet out!

by Nan11 Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:33 am

Chickenbutt wrote:

WE JUST REACHED 100 MEMBERS!!!

Chickenbutt wrote:Nan....we are getting flurries all day and the temp is 12 degrees with a windchill of -2. I can't wait to get to AZ to thaw my feet out!

Hi, CB. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I wanted to congratulate you on the forum reaching 100 members! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

(This thread is moving so fast now, I had a hard time to find your comment.) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Oooo. You guys are quite cold. We are at 28 F; 14 F with the windchill factor. That is why the snow is so heavy, though.

One of my cats just thought she might like to go out, and I had a hard time to get my door opened to show her that she really did not want to go out.

From looking out there, it seems like we got more snow than last weekend and much heavier.

Oh, well. I guess the skiers and the snowmobile folks like it; also the kids because there probably won't be any school tomorrow. Me, not so much!

This is what I call the 'grin and bear it' time. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Chickenbutt Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:36 am

This is what I call cuddle up with a blanket and drink a hot cup of coffee time. I am so over this weather! Jodi Arias #2 - Page 5 2230546374

by Phoenician Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:52 am

Chickenbutt wrote:Phoenician....
About the Chickenbutt.....my boys have called me that forever ( they have no respect!)
It is related to a song I can never remember the name of....lol.
Anyway, it is a loving nickname that generally gets peoples attention....
I am heading to AZ on Friday for a quick trip on Friday. We have a home there that we are currently renting out, but we are so over NY! We are coming home in June!!!
We all look forward to your comments and your insight into this very convoluted case.
btw, I agree with what you said....I think Jodi instigated the contact and Travis, for whatever reasons, could not say no.

We just moved here last August. Loving it this winter, but the summers are brutal! Safe travels.

by Phoenician Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:01 am

I have a couple of questions for the crime watch gang:

1) Since JA has introduced a wide array of testimony about TA's behavior that is not directly related to self-defense, can't the prosecution introduce evidence of JA's psycho behavior? Can't the tire slashing, the stalking, the email hacking, and bank account hacking be introduced to refute her "victim" talk? I mean if they can't introduce that, why is she allowed to make up stuff to villify the victim?

2) I found it interesting the two anecdotes of how Travis and Jodi treated their pets, but can't find the source ... Apparently Jodi kicked the family dog, while Travis reportedly jumped in a swimming pool to save his. Do you have the source for that?

Thanks!

by Chickenbutt Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:25 am

Phoen.....we lived in AZ for 20+ years then 3 years ago moved here to NY. But we are over it now....lol. Long story but heading home for good in June.

Jodi Arias #2 - Page 5 1714678657

g'nite

by angiefly2 Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:06 am

It's probably been pointed out before BUT religion should have nothing to do with this murder. Travis didn't deserve to die just because he was "Mormon" and "allegedly sinned" ,JA sinned too Darkman and she did much more than just have sex before marriage.... she brutally murdered Travis, She was also having sex out of wedlock plenty of times with several men (go watch the whole trial in the library)
My main point is that many religions forbid sex before marriage But ones religious background should bare no weight during a murder trial.
He may have been a pig, as you've said, but she is a murderer.
----------------------------------------------------
To all others who have trouble believing that she could drag him (and I hate to say this) he was wet from the shower and very bloody.... that would make him very slippery.
________________________________________

Also JA's new story of abuse is a real smack in the face to people who have experienced real abuse. Call me stupid but when I was abused I never carried around a knife nor a gun. There are things called restraining orders and that's what I did along with moving so the guy couldn't find me. This bitch drove out of her way, took out the battery from her cellphone etc.... She didn't have to go to his house. She has had 5 years to concoct this new story and her male attorney deals with domestic violence (it's his specialty)
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and this is mine.

ETA: I bet we will see her on an episode of snapped.... Just saying.

by Nan11 Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:07 am

Phoenician wrote:I have a couple of questions for the crime watch gang:

1) Since JA has introduced a wide array of testimony about TA's behavior that is not directly related to self-defense, can't the prosecution introduce evidence of JA's psycho behavior? Can't the tire slashing, the stalking, the email hacking, and bank account hacking be introduced to refute her "victim" talk? I mean if they can't introduce that, why is she allowed to make up stuff to villify the victim?

2) I found it interesting the two anecdotes of how Travis and Jodi treated their pets, but can't find the source ... Apparently Jodi kicked the family dog, while Travis reportedly jumped in a swimming pool to save his. Do you have the source for that?

Thanks!

Unfortunately, I do not think the stalking can be introduced because no charges were offically laid. It was mentioned in the 911 call and also briefly by Ms. Hall--but I believe that is as far as the prosecution can go with that. Hopefully, the jury did catch it.

The tire slashing is interesting in this regard--when the defense introduced the check for $699.00 that Travis had supposedly borrowed from Arias, a few of us were speculating that the amount could be the price of a new set of tires. Suppose that the prosecution could come up with a receipt signed by Travis from a garage for tires around that time, and for that amount, and especially if someone at the garage had jotted down on the receipt that they were sold to replace slashed tires--I'm sure Martinez would then be allowed to openly question Arias on it. That is only a supposition, though--without some tangible connection to a check or maybe something that I missed, I don't think he will be able to mention the tire slashing.

She has attempted to explain away the email and text message hacking by saying that she merely stumbled across such private information. She accidentally hit a few keys, and--my, my--there it was. She, of course, was so very sorry that she had done such a thing but she smirkingly said she didn't regret it because she felt that she needed to know Travis had other female friends calling and texting him.

I can't recall hearing any more about her hacking into his bank accounts. I'm almost sure she would have offered some excuse for this behavior, but I didn't catch it. (Sometimes I just tune her out.) Martinez might bring it up, and there could be some pretty good questions resulting. (Or, the defense may have something on this yet to come.)

I'm really hoping that Mr. Martinez will be able to trap her in a couple of her bigger lies--the timing of the broken finger; and maybe that the 'p' picture didn't come from Travis' phone. Just a couple would suit me fine.

The story of Travis jumping in the swimming pool to save his dog came from Arais, herself. I believe it was fairly early in her testimony--not this past week, but the week prior to that. He had gone to visit her at her home--the pool was in her back yard. I can't remember why she was revealing this--but the fact that it was in her home perhaps suggests that it may be better left unsaid, anyway.

The other incident about her kicking a dog in the head--I vaguely remember hearing that myself, but I believe she told Det. Flores that story in one of her police interviews.

(Sorry I don't have actual links for these incidents. They are somewhere in the trial links that CB adds to the library thread. Be prepared--there are quite a few of them.)

These are just a few thoughts of my own, hopefully someone who knows more will jump in. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Gizmo711 Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:13 am

Phoenician wrote:I have a couple of questions for the crime watch gang:

1) Since JA has introduced a wide array of testimony about TA's behavior that is not directly related to self-defense, can't the prosecution introduce evidence of JA's psycho behavior? Can't the tire slashing, the stalking, the email hacking, and bank account hacking be introduced to refute her "victim" talk? I mean if they can't introduce that, why is she allowed to make up stuff to villify the victim?

2) I found it interesting the two anecdotes of how Travis and Jodi treated their pets, but can't find the source ... Apparently Jodi kicked the family dog, while Travis reportedly jumped in a swimming pool to save his. Do you have the source for that?

Thanks!

They wont be able to bring up the tire slashing because a police report was not made, no charges were ever brought upon Jodi. As for the rest, I'm not too sure, alot of that may have gone on behind closed hearings and decided upon. But I'm sure that Martinez will bring on rebuttle witnesses to refute all that abuse syndrome. Even though I doubt that the jury is buying it. I haven't heard one thing that Jodi has said yet that would have brought her to murdering Travis, and I doubt that anything can be said.

What troubles me is that Jodi is allowed to make up stories and present it to the jury, when Travis cannot, even though there were witnesses (like the tire slashing) even though no one actually saw her do it, we know it did happen and know who did it. Whereas Jodi's so called abuse was never seen by anyone, she never had a mark on her and none of his previous girlfriends ever saw that side of him.

As for the "finger", it is obviously broken or could be a ripped tenden, however, I would like to hear from someone, that she had it prior to the day of the killing. I think it is obvious that it happened during the murder, and will probably be proven by Martinez.

by Gizmo711 Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:14 am

Good morning Nan,

by Gizmo711 Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:20 am

I too was wondering why the $699.00, it seemed that it was more of a bill for something rather than a loan to Travis.

You could be very right, that it was for the slashed tires. I hope the prosecutor looks into that.

by Nan11 Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:30 am

Gizmo711 wrote:Good morning Nan,

Mornin,' Gizmo! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Gizmo711 wrote: I too was wondering why the $699.00, it seemed that it was more of a bill for something rather than a loan to Travis.

You could be very right, that it was for the slashed tires. I hope the prosecutor looks into that.

I think we had a little brain storming session on that in chat one afternoon.

I don't remember whose idea it was, but it stuck in my old noggin and I thought it is very plausible.

How sweet would that be if Martinez comes up with something like that? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I don't see Travis borrowing money from her. I believe if we were to know the truth it was for repayment of money he had loaned her.

by Gizmo711 Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:29 am

Somethings I don't understand why the defense is bringing up, most is more detrimental that good for Jodi. However, if Nurmi thinks that Martinez is going to bring it up then what Nurmi is trying to do is get it out there first.

The defense knows that the prosecution gets the last say so, so Nurmi is going to bleed Jodi for everything possible.

All this defense wants to do is make themselves a name as "high profile attorny's", then they become famous and up their fees.

I too do not see Travis borrowing money from Jodi. Jodi was broke and destitute, Travis was even giving her some work to get her by with.

He sold her a car with her making payments. The fact that she claimed to have a friend that wanted to buy the car for 4500 but Travis wanted more, is rediculous. Anyone would take the sure 4500 vs payments that Jodi might or might not make. I'm certain that Jodi was the one that begged him for that car because she had to turn her car in and her credit was shot (as she herself stated) . It's all BS, every word out of her mouth has been twisted from the truth, every single word.

by gpw Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:37 am

Ok it's going to be temporary insanity.
Story. I had a yard man, best person in the World. Hard working, quiet, kind, wouldn't hurt a flea, do any thing for you type person about 20 to 27 years old range, male. He goes home and finds his wife with another man. He suspected something was up. Had a gun with him. Shot and killed his wife. Nobody could believe it. My family went to court to speak on this man's behalph. He got a lighter sentence.

Jodi has no priors. No drug problems. No family problems to speak of. No history of violence. Jodi snaps in rage and experiences temporary insanity. She does things that no one in their right mind could ever imagine. Now what?

by gpw Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:00 am

gpw wrote:Ok it's going to be temporary insanity.
Story. I had a yard man, best person in the World. Hard working, quiet, kind, wouldn't hurt a flea, do any thing for you type person about 20 to 27 years old range, male. He goes home and finds his wife with another man. He suspected something was up. Had a gun with him. Shot and killed his wife. Nobody could believe it. My family went to court to speak on this man's behalph. He got a lighter sentence.

Jodi has no priors. No drug problems. Knows right from wrong. Works to make ends meat. Has very high intelligence. No family problems to speak of. No history of violence. Jodi snaps in rage and experiences temporary insanity. She does things that no one in their right mind could ever imagine. Now what?

oops...sorry about the repeat copy!

by Nan11 Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:22 am

gpw wrote:Ok it's going to be temporary insanity.
Story. I had a yard man, best person in the World. Hard working, quiet, kind, wouldn't hurt a flea, do any thing for you type person about 20 to 27 years old range, male. He goes home and finds his wife with another man. He suspected something was up. Had a gun with him. Shot and killed his wife. Nobody could believe it. My family went to court to speak on this man's behalph. He got a lighter sentence.

Jodi has no priors. No drug problems. No family problems to speak of. No history of violence. Jodi snaps in rage and experiences temporary insanity. She does things that no one in their right mind could ever imagine. Now what?

Question. How many times did the yard man shoot his wife?

I haven't heard a word about a plea of temporary insanity. When they finally get her off the stand, they intend to call expert witnesses to speak on the battered woman syndrome, which is a very big part of the reason why she is allowed up there to trash the character of the victim, whom she has confessed to brutally murdering.

Here are a couple of links that are interesting. Probably they are not the best sources, but for what they are worth:

Self defense is when you hurt or kill some one in order to protect yourself at that moment. So if i run at you with a knife, and you shoot me before I hae a chance to kill you, THAT is self defense. But if I trip and knock myself out cold, and you shoot me anyway, then it is murder because you were no longer in IMMIDIATE danger.

Battered Womems Syndrom is the belief that when a woman is phsyically abused (usually by her husband/ boyfriend) over a long period of time, and she has no means to leave the abusive situation, she may feel that she has no choice but to kill the offender, even if she is not in immediate danger. BWS is no longer concidered to be a viable defense in any jurisdiction in the U.S. that I am aware of, as the American Psychiatric Association says it's not even a real syndrome. If anything, its a branch of PTSD, but it doesn't warp a persons sense of right/ wrong or reality. So just because a woman says she thought she had no choice, that doesn't mean that its true. No choice means if you dont do it you'll die. Most BWS defendants could have easaly left their marrage , but didnt want to lose her husbands income. Thats not even PTSD, thats premeditated murder motivated by hatred and greed.
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The plea of temporary insanity is usually entered in order to relieve a person of criminal responsibilities due to mental conditions beyond the person's control. In other words, under certain circumstances, a person on trial may plead not guilty for doing the crime because he is not in his right mind during the offense.
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Arias has pleaded guilty and has told the jury that she murdered Travis because he attacked her and she had to defend herself.

by Chickenbutt Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:52 am

Jodi cannot say temporary insanity at this late date. She has already said self defense. She cannot change her mind midway thru trial.

by Nan11 Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:36 am

Gizmo711 wrote:Somethings I don't understand why the defense is bringing up, most is more detrimental that good for Jodi. However, if Nurmi thinks that Martinez is going to bring it up then what Nurmi is trying to do is get it out there first.

The defense knows that the prosecution gets the last say so, so Nurmi is going to bleed Jodi for everything possible.

All this defense wants to do is make themselves a name as "high profile attorny's", then they become famous and up their fees.

I too do not see Travis borrowing money from Jodi. Jodi was broke and destitute, Travis was even giving her some work to get her by with.

He sold her a car with her making payments. The fact that she claimed to have a friend that wanted to buy the car for 4500 but Travis wanted more, is rediculous. Anyone would take the sure 4500 vs payments that Jodi might or might not make. I'm certain that Jodi was the one that begged him for that car because she had to turn her car in and her credit was shot (as she herself stated) . It's all BS, every word out of her mouth has been twisted from the truth, every single word.

BBM - Yes, I think that is exactly what he is doing. I heard that he wanted to only play parts of the 'call.' Martinez said that would be okay, but he would play the whole call during cross. So.

We heard the whole call played by the defense.

I agree that many of the things we are hearing are detrimental to Arias. I think they want to put it all out there, so that the experts will have as much to work with as possible, when it comes time for their testimony.

Basically, her defense appears to be putting out everything--no matter how weak or questionable--in an effort to find something, anything that will stick in the minds of the jurors; or perhaps will be able to be bent by the experts into something that sticks

I feel that it is starting to appear that it is just too much. There is not enough variation, it has all become so boring and tiring. Yada, yada, yada--we've heard it all before, but here we go again.

Her flat emotionless tone is also coached, imo.

It's hard to understand how the jury is seeing it, though. Sometimes I wish we could get a litle peek at them to see their expressions. (That is just my anxiety wanting to be fed, I understand why they don't broadcast the jury--and agree with it.)

You said:

It's all BS, every word out of her mouth has been twisted from the truth, every single word.

I thought that was so well said that it bears repeating. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by gpw Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:45 pm

I think I would have gone for temporary insanity due to the threat of danger and the events that followed.
I have been chased out of the Ocean by a shark and to tell you the truth I can't remember getting in the boat.
I have been accused of something I have not done and gone into a mini rage that I vaguely remember.
I believe JA came to the house with her weapons with the intent to threaten Travis and maybe herself as well, Shoot Travis and cut her wrists.
I believe when the gun failed to kill Travis, remember this was her first attempt that we know of to kill a grown adult, she went to plan B which was being fed by adrenaline and little thought. Run to knapsack and get knife. This proved to be not as easy as she imagined either until the coup de grace. So we have a combination of both here, premeditated gun shot to the head and all hell breaking loose after plan A fails.
JA is absolutely lost it at this point. She is in way over her head. Travis fought like a bull and ended up in the bedroom with blood everywhere.
For a girl to do this the first time in her life with no help is just plain mind boggling. But Case Anthony did it. OJ Simpson did it, so where does society draw the line?

by Phoenician Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:56 pm

The Arizona self-defense statute is pretty narrow. As I recall, there are two elements (sorry for paraphrasing):

1) The likelihood of death must be imminent. I don't even think that someone yelling at you or even hitting or pushing you would trigger the "likelihood of death" element (despite all her wooden spoon spankings that conditioned her to fear for her life ... LOL)

2) The response must be proportional to the threat and go no further. It seems that since Travis was in the shower, naked, and essentially trapped in the bathroom that Jodi could have simply run out of the bathroom and out of the house. He could not have followed her out of the house, obviously. She stayed in the bathroom and somehow (despite her claims of being attacked) managed to pull out a knife and a gun and brutally kill TA. Yet she suffered no known injuries herself, other than the finger cuts, which she says were from another incident of "abuse." Ryan Burns testimony is vital. There were no marks on her face or neck showing TA had hit her or attempted to choke her. She had no broken bones. The damage done to TA in response to his so-called "attack" was SO disproportional to even anything JA has made up. The fact that someone once allegedly kicked your hand, does not give you the right to kill them.

The jury needs to stick to these facts, and this definition of self-defense. They should not attempt to equate psychological abuse or hurt feelings with actual threatening of life.

This was obviously a revenge killing, not self-defense.

by Phoenician Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:08 pm

Nan11 wrote:
The story of Travis jumping in the swimming pool to save his dog came from Arais, herself. I believe it was fairly early in her testimony--not this past week, but the week prior to that. He had gone to visit her at her home--the pool was in her back yard. I can't remember why she was revealing this--but the fact that it was in her home perhaps suggests that it may be better left unsaid, anyway.

The other incident about her kicking a dog in the head--I vaguely remember hearing that myself, but I believe she told Det. Flores that story in one of her police interviews.

(Sorry I don't have actual links for these incidents. They are somewhere in the trial links that CB adds to the library thread. Be prepared--there are quite a few of them.)

These are just a few thoughts of my own, hopefully someone who knows more will jump in. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thanks. I've always believed you can tell a lot about people by how they treat animals. There is another story circulating about how Jodi was supposed to watch somebody's cats, and totally neglected them. They almost starved to death.

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