Re: Jordan Davis General Discussion Thread #1

[ForJustice]

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Looking into the eyes of the young man (baby) who should be home with his family brings me to tears. How many parents here recognise the look on his face? I've seen that very same look from both my children when they were teenagers. They don't have a care in the world, they just innocently go through their day to day trusting and leaning on mom and dad.

What a tragedy for this baby to be murdered by a man looking for any reason to use his gun. A grown man with no respect for the life of a child.

I pray Dunn rots in prison and I pray for Jordan's parent.

[ForJustice]

Lawyer for man accused of killling Jordan Davis predicts Corey will seek payback over Zimmerman acquittal


more:
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Excuse me please! FUCK HIM!
Sick and tired of these SOB - is he going to use the Murderer/Zimmerman got acquited so the state is sticking it to my murderous child killing dick head client who murdered one black child and acidently miss the others.

Febbie I tell you if he mentions the name Trayvon Martin in defense of his client he deserves a slap down.

[CherokeeNative]

I don't know whether everyone has read over the discovery in this case - but just watching the interrogation video of Dunn, it is obvious he is puffing up his supposed fear.  The "fear" mantra sounds just like Zimmerman's rant - they must teach this is the CWP classes because the similarities are eerily the same.

From watching the video, you can pretty much imagine what really happened.  Jordan used the f-bomb on this guy, and Dunn took his gun out and had it in his lap when he rolled down his window and said, "you talking to me?" and when Jordan threw another f-bomb at him, he raised his gun and started firing and continued by getting out of his car and firing some more.  

The story that he saw this kid raise something up from the floorboard of the car is bullshit - as is his story that Jordan said he was going to murder him.  What a crock.  Dunn fled the scene because he knew he was legally drunk I suspect - so he went to a hotel, ordered Pizza and slept it off.  How cold and calculated.  Fortunately, three other kids and a slew of witnesses were there to relay what truly happened.

In light of the Zimmerman verdict, I will not predict this case as a slam dunk.  Just the fact that it was a car of four black kids will make the racists in Florida come out in droves and defend the murderer.  It sickens me that I am so unsure of our justice system.

[Febbie]

Angela Corey will be prosecuting this one herself, after the Z's case I believe two loses will not benefit her.

[ellejay]

John M. Phillips ‏@JohnPhillips
Off to New York City for Anderson Cooper with Ron & Lucy tonight and a great meeting tomorrow. #JordanDavis



360º Monday July 22,2013
Anderson Cooper looks at the case of Jordan Davis and its parallels to the killing of Trayvon Martin. Watch AC360° at 8 and 11 p.m. ET.

[twee]

I am hoping/praying for this case. For one thing the LE are on "our side" I have read some of the discovery and it seems that these LE know how to write up a report.

[ellejay]

I agree, this guy is going.  I'm just afraid to talk too soon, this is Florida and we have seen a lot of injustice rather than justice.  This guy is an animal, he didn't even stay at the scene, he got his pizza and went back to his hotel with his girlfriend and acted like nothing took place. He is a replica of racism that infests our society.

First degree carries a death sentence, 12 jurors will be picked for this case.  This mans face is the typical face that one sees in Florida.  He is an animal.

The female attorney that he hired looks like a nut job.  

I love that they didn't give this bastard a bond.  

--the prosecution isn't going for the death penalty in this case.

--he fired his 1st attorneys (robin lemonidis and mitch stone) His parents hired cory strolla to replace them, who says he may use SYG, and also promote the character and credibility of micheal dunn.

Michael Dunn's new attorney, Cory Strolla, said he is not ruling out using a "Stand Your Ground" defense. The law justifies the use of deadly force if someone fears death or great bodily harm regardless of where they are.

Dunn's attorney said his client acted in self-defense.

Cory Strolla said, "It's going to come down to character and credibility, and our position is that Michael Dunn has character. He has credibility. He is a law-abiding citizen. He has never been involved in an action like this in his life. He has never had to draw his weapon. He's never had to fire his weapon. Nobody in a position of Michael Dunn has ever been put in a position like he was that night."

[ellejay]

I have only just started reading up on this one but from what I have seen so far, this is NOT a SYG but a massacre.  Then the a$$hole just got in his car and drove off and continued his evening as planned.  I sure hope this menace to society is taken off the streets forever.

Does anyone think there is any chance of his girlfriend being charged with anything?  I know she was in the store when the shooting happened but then she made the choice to get in his car, leave the scene and never report to the authorities.

--according to this, no.

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Investigators said Dunn’s girlfriend had gone into the store to buy something at the time and was inside when the shooting happened.

“She came running outside and she jumped in the vehicle, when they took off,” Schoonover said.

The woman, whose name was not released, will not face charges, police said. They said she has been cooperating with investigators.

[ellejay]

--interesting, michael dunn had his own 'mark osterman' to seek advice from.

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Evidence: Dunn didn't tell girlfriend he saw a gun

--snip--
The two spent the night together at a hotel before Dunn was arrested the next morning after returning to Brevard County. Police say he had been talking to a neighbor about the shooting incident and asking for advice.  The evidence says when police called Dunn's number to talk to him about the shooting, he immediately knew why they were calling and told them he shot in self-defense.  When he was told he should report to the nearest Brevard County Sheriff's Office, Dunn apparently said "this sucks" and then went to turn himself in.

Police say they also received a call from a man who says he used to be Dunn's neighbor in Port St. Lucie.  The police report states the person told them he had heard about the shooting on the news and called because he wasn't surprised Dunn was involved.  He told cops that in 2000, Dunn had solicited him to kill someone for him or to find someone who would kill someone else for him. According to the caller, Dunn was having trouble with someone who was suing his computer company and he wanted that person eliminated. The caller also mentioned other instances he witnessed including Dunn committing insurance fraud worth $30,000 and holding a gun to his ex-wife's head.  The police report states the caller told them Dunn doesn't like anyone who doesn't agree with his way of thinking.

--article contains discovery docs:

•Audio recording from gas station (.mp3)
•JSO Witness Interviews (PDF)
•JSO Arrest Affidavits (PDF)
•Medical Examiner Report (PDF)
•Brevard County Reports (PDF)
•Michael Dunn Hotel Bill (PDF)
•Inventory of Evidence (PDF)
•JSO Evidence Log (PDF)

[CherokeeNative]

I agree, this guy is going.  I'm just afraid to talk too soon, this is Florida and we have seen a lot of injustice rather than justice.  This guy is an animal, he didn't even stay at the scene, he got his pizza and went back to his hotel with his girlfriend and acted like nothing took place. He is a replica of racism that infests our society.

First degree carries a death sentence, 12 jurors will be picked for this case.  This mans face is the typical face that one sees in Florida.  He is an animal.

The female attorney that he hired looks like a nut job.  

I love that they didn't give this bastard a bond.  

--the prosecution isn't going for the death penalty in this case.

--he fired his 1st attorneys (robin lemonidis and mitch stone) His parents hired cory strolla to replace them, who says he may use SYG, and also promote the character and credibility of micheal dunn.

Michael Dunn's new attorney, Cory Strolla, said he is not ruling out using a "Stand Your Ground" defense. The law justifies the use of deadly force if someone fears death or great bodily harm regardless of where they are.

Dunn's attorney said his client acted in self-defense.

Cory Strolla said, "It's going to come down to character and credibility, and our position is that Michael Dunn has character. He has credibility. He is a law-abiding citizen. He has never been involved in an action like this in his life. He has never had to draw his weapon. He's never had to fire his weapon. Nobody in a position of Michael Dunn has ever been put in a position like he was that night."

It is the ambiguous wording of the statute that is attracting attorneys into using the SYG law. The statute basically reads that so long as the defendant was in fear of death or great bodily harm, he can use deadly force. And no one, NO ONE, can prove what a defendant was feeling in his/her mind except for the defendant. What a stupid, stupid statute. And in areas where there are racial issues such as the south, any white person can expect to have a jury impaneled that will support their "reasonable fear" allegation and find them not guilty where the victim was a black person. I am appalled that this statute actually made it into the law books without being highly protested by the many civil rights watch dog groups throughout the nation. This law needs to be removed from the books in every state where it currently exists.

With that said, I certainly hope that Angela Corey doesn't follow the defense's theory that the case comes down to character and credibility - we've seen what a defense attorney can do to a victim's reputation despite there being no criminal record. This case should remain focused on what occurred that night - when a gun-toting white man left a wedding after drinking and took it upon himself to kill a car load of black kids because one of them told him to get fucked - because that is basically what happened. Dunn had no other reason to leave the scene and not contact police until the following day except to avoid an alcohol/drug test and give himself time to think up a story. Otherwise, he could have drove down the road, stopped, and called authorities. Who friggin unloads their 9mm on a car load of kids and then goes to a hotel and orders pizza?

[Byia]

Who friggin unloads their 9mm on a car load of kids and then goes to a hotel and orders pizza?

A Florida white man allowed to carry a gun so long as their target is a Black person.

Can they do an alcohol test the next day? Perhaps his alcohol level would not be the same but wouldn't it show if he was drinking the night before any how.
Guests at the wedding may of witnessed him drinking.
The justice rules would probably not allow it to be presented to jury any how as it would be the truth. Can't let a jury hear any truth's. That may cause them to come up with a proper ruling.

[papapi]

John M. Phillips
@JohnPhillips
Jordan Davis' family with @andersoncooper on filming segment for @AC360 to be aired soon. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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[ellejay]

It is the ambiguous wording of the statute that is attracting attorneys into using the SYG law.  The statute basically reads that so long as the defendant was in fear of death or great bodily harm, he can use deadly force.  And no one, NO ONE, can prove what a defendant was feeling in his/her mind except for the defendant.  What a stupid, stupid statute.  And in areas where there are racial issues such as the south, any white person can expect to have a jury impaneled that will support their "reasonable fear" allegation and find them not guilty where the victim was a black person.  I am appalled that this statute actually made it into the law books without being highly protested by the many civil rights watch dog groups throughout the nation.  This law needs to be removed from the books in every state where it currently exists.
--snip--

 

--agree. it's ridiculous.

john philips posted an article on SYG yesterday:

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Stand Your Ground – Why SYG’s Reasonable Belief Standard is Beyond Dangerous


Stand Your Ground, as codified in Florida and elsewhere, is entirely based on whether the person defending himself or herself held an instance of a “reasonable belief” that harm could occur.  This piece asks, what is reasonable?  And how can we determine what a reasonable belief is anymore?

When Florida Circuit Court Judge Debra Nelson issued the jury instructions in the second-degree murder trial of George Zimmerman, she read:

If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Here is the actual jury instruction read to Florida juries BEFORE the legislature’s enactment of Stand Your Ground:

The defendant cannot justify the use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless he used every reasonable means within his power and consistent with his own safety to avoid the danger before resorting to that force. The fact that the defendant was wrongfully attacked cannot justify his use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm if by retreating he could have avoided the need to use that force.

See the difference?  Juries used to judge a person’s actions and means to determine reasonableness.  Now they must determine reasonable beliefs.  I submit that is impossible.  An expressed belief is very difficult to impeach.  It forces juries to side with those who legally own guns as long as they say they were afraid.

--more@link

Stand Your Ground - How it Came to Be

Stand Your Ground - Why the Civil Immunity Provision is Unconstitutional

[papapi]

Hi, I just want to express my appreciation to those who are contributing and commenting on this topic of Jordan Davis' murder. I follow John Phillips on Twitter, and like Cher, I have promised to offer my vocal support, and if necessary some small monetary support, to Jordan's family as this case goes forward. I hope others of the Crime Watchers community will join us in seeking Justice for Jordan.

[Omachka]

I have only just started reading up on this one but from what I have seen so far, this is NOT a SYG but a massacre.  Then the a$$hole just got in his car and drove off and continued his evening as planned.  I sure hope this menace to society is taken off the streets forever.

Does anyone think there is any chance of his girlfriend being charged with anything?  I know she was in the store when the shooting happened but then she made the choice to get in his car, leave the scene and never report to the authorities.

--according to this, no.

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Investigators said Dunn’s girlfriend had gone into the store to buy something at the time and was inside when the shooting happened.

“She came running outside and she jumped in the vehicle, when they took off,” Schoonover said.

The woman, whose name was not released, will not face charges, police said. They said she has been cooperating with investigators.

Thanks , Elle. I can always count on you to find the answers to my questions.  

[twee]

Hi, I just want to express my appreciation to those who are contributing and commenting on this topic of Jordan Davis' murder. I follow John Phillips on Twitter, and like Cher, I have promised to offer my vocal support, and if necessary some small monetary support, to Jordan's family as this case goes forward. I hope others of the Crime Watchers community will join us in seeking Justice for Jordan.

I am there for Justice for Jordan... We still have a fight where again the defense attorneys can trash a victim before the public polluting any fair jury.

[Omachka]

It is the ambiguous wording of the statute that is attracting attorneys into using the SYG law.  The statute basically reads that so long as the defendant was in fear of death or great bodily harm, he can use deadly force.  And no one, NO ONE, can prove what a defendant was feeling in his/her mind except for the defendant.  What a stupid, stupid statute.  And in areas where there are racial issues such as the south, any white person can expect to have a jury impaneled that will support their "reasonable fear" allegation and find them not guilty where the victim was a black person.  I am appalled that this statute actually made it into the law books without being highly protested by the many civil rights watch dog groups throughout the nation.  This law needs to be removed from the books in every state where it currently exists.
--snip--

 

--agree. it's ridiculous.

john philips posted an article on SYG yesterday:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Stand Your Ground – Why SYG’s Reasonable Belief Standard is Beyond Dangerous


Stand Your Ground, as codified in Florida and elsewhere, is entirely based on whether the person defending himself or herself held an instance of a “reasonable belief” that harm could occur.  This piece asks, what is reasonable?  And how can we determine what a reasonable belief is anymore?

When Florida Circuit Court Judge Debra Nelson issued the jury instructions in the second-degree murder trial of George Zimmerman, she read:

If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Here is the actual jury instruction read to Florida juries BEFORE the legislature’s enactment of Stand Your Ground:

The defendant cannot justify the use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless he used every reasonable means within his power and consistent with his own safety to avoid the danger before resorting to that force. The fact that the defendant was wrongfully attacked cannot justify his use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm if by retreating he could have avoided the need to use that force.

See the difference?  Juries used to judge a person’s actions and means to determine reasonableness.  Now they must determine reasonable beliefs.  I submit that is impossible.  An expressed belief is very difficult to impeach.  It forces juries to side with those who legally own guns as long as they say they were afraid.

--more@link

Stand Your Ground - How it Came to Be

Stand Your Ground - Why the Civil Immunity Provision is Unconstitutional

Jeff Ashton who was one of the prosecutors on the CA case and who is now the State Attorney here in Orange/Osceola County chimed in about the need to review and change the SYG statutes on WESH TV.

[Gizmo711]

As long as all the biggies go along with this SYG BS, nothing will ever get done about it. Maybe when it happens to one of theirs, but until then, these bastards actually like this law. It allows a white man to shoot down a black man and walk a free man.

This is a regression of times and a disgrace to all. Soon there will be gun draws in the street. Where this law was ever thought about is beyond me. How could anyone at all go along with this? It's sickening and scary. We will end up with riots in the street that will be totally justified as far as I am concerned.

[papapi]

Febbie requested a sig banner for Jordan Davis, and I am more than happy to oblige.

Here it is... and anyone is welcome to use this in any fashion as long as it is not for monetary gain.

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Code:

[img]http://i44.tinypic.com/206ipp5.jpg[/img]

image code

There's some references included, though they are difficult to make out in this small image. 1,000,000 hoodie march, and the OBEY ball cap Jordan is wearing in the image.

[Omachka]

Febbie requested a sig banner for Jordan Davis, and I am more than happy to oblige.

Here it is... and anyone is welcome to use this in any fashion as long as it is not for monetary gain.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Code:

[img]http://i44.tinypic.com/206ipp5.jpg[/img]

image code

There's some references included, though they are difficult to make out in this small image. 1,000,000 hoodie march, and the OBEY ball cap Jordan is wearing in the image.

Thank you very much.  I've added it to my signature.  You do such beautiful work with the graphics.  

[Febbie]

Michael Dunn's girlfriend answers questions of police

Rouer told police Dunn had three rum and cokes at the wedding reception in Orange Park.

Rhonda Rouer tells police when they parked next to a car with loud music at the Gate Station on Southside Boulevard November 23rd, Michael Dunn said "I hate that thug music" as he had said to her before. She went inside to buy wine and chips, and heard several shots fired while she was inside.


She looked out and saw Dunn, but did not see a gun. She went outside and he urgently told her to 'get in the car, get in the car!' As she did, she saw Dunn put his gun back in the glove box. Dunn told her he shot at the car with the loud music -- she asked him why.

"He said 'I feared for my life.' I said 'why?' He said 'they threatened to kill me.'"

read more questions:

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[CherokeeNative]

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The case is assigned to Judge Russell Healey. Strolla and Dunn were in court last Tuesday, July 16. Larry Hannan of Jacksonville.com describes what happened:


Tuesday’s hearing was the first since Judge Russell Healey replaced judges Suzanne Bass and Mallory Cooper, who each excused themselves from the case.

Strolla sought Bass’ removal after accusing her of misconduct and bias against his client. Cooper is now handling another high-profile case, Donald James Smith for 8-year-old Cherish Perrywinkle’s sexual assault and death.
Bass denied Dunn bail, refused a motion to have the state declare him indigent and pushed to have the trial in September even though his attorneys said it was unrealistic.

With a new judge, Strolla sought to revisit bail and Dunn’s indigent status. But Healey denied both requests.

If Dunn had been declared indigent, the state would have been required to pay for investigations Strolla wanted to conduct into the crime.

Bass and Healey both denied the motion because Strolla is being paid $7,500 a month to represent Dunn. Strolla said Dunn’s parents are paying him, and not Dunn himself, but both judges said that didn’t matter.

Strolla also reiterated his previous statement that he would not be ready for trial in September and told Healey the earliest he could be prepared is February. Healey told Strolla he wanted to try the case this year, but for now the trial date remains set for Sept. 23.

Go to the following link to review the discovery (H/T to fauxmccoy for providing the link):

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[CherokeeNative]

Thank you Papapi for the signature banner for Jordan.   

[CherokeeNative]

So Dunn has already gone through two Judges and is on his third ...hmmm, sound familiar? Mommy & Daddy are paying his attorney's fees - that's better than begging for dollars, but the nerve of Dunn wanting to claim indigent.

This case has witnesses to the crime - the SUV of four teens never left the immediate area and only moved the vehicle to avoid the spray of bullets coming at them. There are witnesses that saw them react to the shooting and everything they did up to the point that they returned to the scene of the crime. The only one who left the scene of the crime was Dunn - who was obviously under the influence of alcohol...he told the investigator he only had one mixed drink...his girlfriend says three...so we can figure more like 5 or 6.

This SOB better not get off on SYG or self-defense. There is absolutely no evidence that these kids did anything other than tell Dunn to go F himself...which I probably would have done at that age.

[CherokeeNative]

As long as all the biggies go along with this SYG BS, nothing will ever get done about it.  Maybe when it happens to one of theirs, but until then, these bastards actually like this law.  It allows a white man to shoot down a black man and walk a free man.

This is a regression of times and a disgrace to all.  Soon there will be gun draws in the street.  Where this law was ever thought about is beyond me.  How could anyone at all go along with this?  It's sickening and scary.  We will end up with riots in the street that will be totally justified as far as I am concerned.

Gizmo we think so much alike. I was going to put in my earlier post...but I will do it now... IF Dunn manages to walk under the SYG laws or any form of self-defense, I hope to hell the people of color of the State of Florida rips that State apart - I would be tempted to fly in just to help them. I am that angry over the lack of justice when it comes to black people. It is disgusting and unacceptable. I know we are a Nation that has supposedly evolved enough not to have to resort to violence, but when the country of politicians are being complacent in allowing laws to be enacted and stand that jeopardize people because of the color of their skin, then I am ready for a civil war.

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