Re: Jordan Davis General Discussion Thread #1

[ellejay]

February 15, 2014

Michael Dunn Trial - Jury Question #8

[CherokeeNative]

I would have thought that the Zimmerman trial would have enraged the African American community such that the rest of Florida would see that they cannot continue to do this to them. But Florida citizens have learned nothing. All of the demonstrating, the trips and testimony to Congress, nothing has changed what is happening. The NRA has it fixed so that nothing is going to be done about gun control to the extent that it will prevent the rednecked white racists from shooting a person of color every opportunity they have. I am fit to be tied. I do not know what can be done to correct it. The Nation is not going to come together and fix this - instead, here we are blogging and bitching - but in reality, nothing is going to be done and our children keep being murdered. Okay - maybe I need to go take a walk because I am on the ledge.

[axpm]

How can anyone call this self defense? All a white person has to say is I was scared and that's it?!! No!! I know I felt this is how this was gonna turn out but damn!!!

[axpm]

I would have thought that the Zimmerman trial would have enraged the African American community such that the rest of Florida would see that they cannot continue to do this to them.  But Florida citizens have learned nothing.  All of the demonstrating, the trips and testimony to Congress, nothing has changed what is happening.  The NRA has it fixed so that nothing is going to be done about gun control to the extent that it will prevent the rednecked white racists from shooting a person of color every opportunity they have.  I am fit to be tied.  I do not know what can be done to correct it.  The Nation is not going to come together and fix this - instead, here we are blogging and bitching - but in reality, nothing is going to be done and our children keep being murdered.  Okay - maybe I need to go take a walk because I am on the ledge.

I feel every word said. What now?? The NRA money is strong. The belief that the right to guns supercedes the right for a brown skinned persons right to life. I'm discouraged by humans right now

[CherokeeNative]

I don't want to give the impression that I am condoning anything illegal - that is not what I am saying - but I am so very frustrated over what is happening. If the tables were turned and this had been a car load of 4 white boys, we would have had a verdict the first day and it would have been as charged. Same with Zimmerman. It is just so frustrating.

I've said all along that I would be mortified if I was pulled over by police and expected to keep my hands on the wheel - yet that is what is expected of a black person. Why is that? Why can white people walk the streets all night long, but let a black man be out past 8pm, and he will be questioned by passing police patrol? I am just over this blatant racism in our Nation.

[axpm]

I don't want to give the impression that I am condoning anything illegal - that is not what I am saying - but I am so very frustrated over what is happening.  If the tables were turned and this had been a car load of 4 white boys, we would have had a verdict the first day and it would have been as charged.  Same with Zimmerman.  It is just so frustrating.

I've said all along that I would be mortified if I was pulled over by police and expected to keep my hands on the wheel - yet that is what is expected of a black person.  Why is that?  Why can white people walk the streets all night long, but let a black man be out past 8pm, and he will be questioned by passing police patrol?  I am just over this blatant racism in our Nation.

I understand what you are saying. I'm frustrated. I'm hurt. I'm disillusioned. I'm feel helpless and close to hopeless. I have children that I didn't think I would have to have these talks with. Ughhh! I really hope we are all over reacting and this jury does the right thing.

[CherokeeNative]

I know this will never fly - but perhaps one way to avoid this obvious "good ol' boy" jury make up that is finding self-defense when it is clearly murder is to change the make up of the juries. Either go to professional jurors, or change the make up of the jurors depending upon whether the victim was black or white - It did not go unnoticed that there were no black men on the jury in a town that is 40% black people. The jury should have been 40% black people IMO.

Okay, I will drop it until we see what the jury actually comes up with for a verdict. Like Ellejay points out, this could be just one juror asking a question....thanks Ellejay for your calm reasoning.

[ellejay]

--no kidding Cher, why on earth did not a single black male make it onto the jury.

Final composition of jury: 2 AA females, 1 Asian female, 1 Hispanic Male, 4 white men, 4 white females

--I'm not sure who the final 12 are, all I heard was Sunny Hosten say that the doctor wasn't one of them.

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[ellejay]

 ---snip--

Okay, I will drop it until we see what the jury actually comes up with for a verdict.  Like Ellejay points out, this could be just one juror asking a question....thanks Ellejay for your calm reasoning.

--calm? I AM NOT CALM!

--how the hell can any one of these jurors be contemplating justifiable deadly force ?????

--unfreakingbelievable.




#DunnTrial jury has a three-part question:  1. Is the defense of self defense separate for each person in each count?

Are we determining if deadly force was justified against each person in each count?

Or, if we determine if deadly force is justified against one person, is it justified against the others?

[CherokeeNative]

--no kidding Cher, why on earth did not a single black male make it onto the jury.

Final composition of jury: 2 AA females, 1 Asian female, 1 Hispanic Male, 4 white men, 4 white females

--I'm not sure who the final 12 are, all I heard was Sunny Hosten say that the doctor wasn't one of them.

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If I am understanding it correctly - the final jurors 13, 14, 15 an 16 were appointed as alternates - so if the numbers are correct in your chart are the correct assigned #'s - that is the makeup.

Yes, calm and reasoning - you always remain fairly calm while I run around the board like a chicken with its head cut-off. (No offense CB)    In fact, I don't think I recall you ever having lost it - quite the contrary for me. LOL All I can hope for at this point I am afraid is a hung jury. If they are going to screw it up and get it so terribly wrong, just hang yourselves and let us have a retrial because this SOB is anything but not guilty.

[twee]

Just woke up and I am utterly sick to my stomach. I had hopes but it looks as if it was misplaced. I hope I am wrong but don't think so. Remember the saying "The South shall rise again" Well I guess it is doing it one black child at a time.

[CherokeeNative]

Okay - I am going to try and get some chores done today. I am newly back on my feet and don't have a lot of stamina, but have lots to do around the house since my last 4 months of being bedridden. Plus we are packing to move to California - woot woot. So, I will check back in shortly to see if anything else has occurred.

I must say - the reporters who are in the courtroom have been really lousy at giving a report of what the jurors look like when they are in the courtroom. In other trials, we have had reports of whether a juror is taking notes, looks near tears, etc. - I've heard nothing thus far on this group. Oh well.

[CherokeeNative]

Just woke up and I am utterly sick to my stomach.  I had hopes but it looks as if it was misplaced.  I hope I am wrong but don't think so.  Remember the saying "The South shall rise again"  Well I guess it is doing it one black child at a time.

Twee - I lost it there for a moment, but I have regained my head and am hoping that all of these questions are just that, questions - and not indicative of what the ultimate results will be. Don't let my loss of composure bring you down.

[CherokeeNative]

More questions from the jury according to Twitter

[ellejay]

More questions from the jury according to Twitter

--that was just HLN posting late, the same Q from earlier this morning.

--counting breaks/meals the jury has now been deliberating 25 hours.

--if they don't reach verdicts today, the Judge will have them come back tomorrow, which would have been Jordan's 18th birthday.

[CherokeeNative]

If they don't reach a verdict today and do reach one tomorrow - I sure hope it is a just verdict for Jordan's parents' sake - can't imagine what a blow it would be to them if the acquitted on Jordan's birthday. What an insult. I saw some jibberish on Twitter that there was some arguing going on between the jurors - has that been something reported officially, or is it just trash talk by tweeters?

[justthefactsforjustice]

This must to be a question set forced on the majority by one or two dissenters on the jury
I think it can only be considered a question asked to put an end to a debate and refocus the discussion.
Its very possible that the answer to questions yesterday spawned this new set of questions and forced them to review what may have been a unanimous verdict on four of the counts
I cannot imagine the scenario where this jury can excuse all of the charges levied here under the premise of self defense.
There is no self defense here.
That can be reasoned away simply by examining Dunns own actions when he did not even make an attempt to report the incident and drove home without ever mentioning the imagined gun.
This is the behavior likened to a child's when they know they will be punished if they admit involvement so the quietly leave the scene and say nothing until confronted I have to continue to have faith until this is over and also continue to be passionate in my Voice and courageous in my actions

[justthefactsforjustice]

excuse the sentence composition

[ellejay]

--this waiting is driving me insane.

--if just one of those jurors is believing self defense, then he/she bought the testimony of Michael dunn.

--since when , if a teenager mouths off to you, is it OK to shoot them??

--oh right, but it was a black teenager, the nerve!

[ellejay]

OMG - wait until you listen to these jailhouse calls - I am on the beginning of the first, and what a weak lame assed chick - boo hooo, she is a basket case just like on the witness stand...

--just started to listen to them.

--I wonder what this is all about when he talks to his Dad?

Anne Hillebrand ‏@Michigangal30
#MichaelDunn's father asked for key to Michael's safe. Stated that all the stuff in safe had to go away? WTF is that all about? #JordanDavis

[sidewinder]

OMG - wait until you listen to these jailhouse calls - I am on the beginning of the first, and what a weak lame assed chick - boo hooo, she is a basket case just like on the witness stand...

--just started to listen to them.

--I wonder what this is all about when he talks to his Dad?

Anne Hillebrand ‏@Michigangal30    
#MichaelDunn's father asked for key to Michael's safe. Stated that all the stuff in safe had to go away? WTF is that all about? #JordanDavis

Makes you wonder what stuff they had to get rid of - incriminating?

I find this process unbelievable and am as frustrated and stressed as everyone. My positive thoughts go to Jordan's parents.

[ellejay]

hmmmm, could this mean anything?

Jacob Long ‏@JacobLong_FCN · 3m
Just saw #JSO Sheriff John Rutherford arrive on fourth floor. Escorted by deputies into closed door room off courtroom 406. @FCN2go

[Chickenbutt]

Activity in the courtroom

[ellejay]

Michael Skolnik ‏@MichaelSkolnik · 42s
Jury has a question. #DunnTrial

[Chickenbutt]

Judge says.....We have a note from the jury.....
Judge left, giving everyone time to get in the courtroom

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